D&D RPG RIP
17 February 2011 in Articles by Captain CalamitousWTF?
No seriously, WTF?
I get product extensions, I really do, obviously I get apoplectic over stupid ones like the release of the Dettol No-Touch Soap Dispenser. Do the morons in marketing not understand that the first thing you do after you touch a soap dispenser is wash your freaking hands?
Anyway, I digress, game affecting cards in D&D? For me these are symptomatic of the drift of 4th Ed D&D towards the Squad Level tactical game it reminds me of. I played encounters today and it was a fairly unimaginative scenario that I feel the writers could have done more with, but during this session we actually received the cards posted out to the organisers.
Reading the rules you now have a draw phase at the start of your turn and you can play your card accordingly during your turn, if anything is guaranteed to turn me cold it’s playing rules extensions and revisions during a game because you have a card for it, it’s ridiculous and it’s just NOT role playing.
What do they think they’re doing?
Of course this will mean that there are rares, uncommons and commons that people will simply have to own, which of course is good business for Hasbro, but playing cards to determine battle outcomes?
Really?
D&D as an RPG is dead to me, I’ll turn up and play with the guys at the Encounters sessions because it’s socialising, but I will not be spending any more money on 4th Ed, I will not be running any more games, I will not renew my ddi subscription, from here on in it’s Pathfinder all the way baby, well that’s when I’m not playing SLA Industries, or FATE or any one of a multitude of RPGs.
Oh yeah, while I’m here, did I mention there’s a new forum for SLA Industries?
Go there, check it out, it’s cool.
The Captain has been playing RPGs since '76. He regularly GMs and plays a variety of different games. He is also a vital source of obscure, yet fun and interesting card games.13 Comments to D&D RPG RIP
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I have to say that to a degree I disagree. First of all, the rules lawyers and power players on my table disliked the cards. In fact, out of the nine people that were playing today, only one said he’ll continue using them, even though everyone got a free booster pack. I don’t think this will be a financially profitable product and will soon go in the can. So I honestly doubt that the product will have any effect on the game as a whole.
As for the quality of the scenario, from what I heard on your table, you barely explored any of the roleplaying options available. And yes, it wasn’t very imaginative, but they all can’t be winners now, can they? The plot this season is overall top notch, much better than most of the 3rd or 4th edition stuff. To be honest, I haven’t read any of the Pathfinder adventure modules so I can’t compare, which is something I intend to do over the weekend.
And yes there will be obsessives who will collect all the rares etc. but as a DM you are welcome not to allow these cards into play. I allow them because I trust my players not to go crazy over them, and whilst they haven’t proven to be a lot of fun, there have definitely been worse products made by wizards in the past, and not for one second did I think that this would be a roleplaying killer. And Zeb, Slim, Che and Theranel from my table will attest to that.
I was the first in my gaming group to place bets on 3ed., convinced that AD&D needed a little bit more then an upgrade. A friend of mine, a purist who plays AD&D to this day, said that the new edition was “a canoe with an enormous hole at the bottom”. He didn’t trusted WotC, and never bought a single product from them.
I, on the other hand, bought 23 rule books for 3ed., so I really felt like a 12th level rogue sneak attacked on me when 4ed. was anounced, just 7 or 8 years after I bought the PHB, DMG and MM.
When I had the opportunity to read the new edition PHB, I felt really sorry for the new generations of D&D players. Most of the Spirit of D&D gave way to some form of tabletop MMORPG that I couldn’t recognize as a form of “role play”.
I wrote a small review at my long-dead blog showing my discontent, and hoping that in a near future I could teach my daughter how to play D&D 5ed. Reading this article just convinced me that her lesson will be on Pathfinder, as a new edition will probably be even worse then this one.
I hope I’m wrong…
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Heh, look at that! Someone who believes that the way one sponsored organized play event is run speaks for the entire game!
You don’t need to use cards. Most DMs won’t. The existence of the cards does not change the game unless your DM wants them to be used.
You are overreacting, to a rather ridiculous degree. First, you don’t decide what makes something an RPG. The existence or non-existence of cards as an optional part of the D&D game does not suddenly change into a not-RPG. The existence of cards does not in any way preclude your ability to roleplay (in fact, arguably, it gives you further roleplaying ammunition, especially for those who enjoy improvising and coming up with round-by-round descriptions of their actions) in this roleplaying game.
Face it: you’re shamelessly knee-jerking because you see this as a corruption of the supposed purity of a game you’ve played in the past. You do not examine the issue critically because you’d rather just be ticked off than really think about how this affects the game.
You’re being a bad fan, a bad gamer, and a poor thinker. Do better.
I might change my mind if I get to see them at the tweetup but I’m not planning on buying or having fortune cards on my games – really not keen on the idea. Having said that I can understand why some people will like them and they’ll probably sell. If you like 4e, don’t let these put you off the game – there’s some interesting-looking stuff coming out this year.
I have mixed feelings about the way D&D is in 4e. I’ve had some great fun playing and running it over the years. It’s possible to have the right mix of combat and role-playing that you and your group prefer.
As to whether or not a certain mix is encouraged or not by the rules is definitely more of a grey area.
And then there’s the whole balance thing/sweet spot, which when I first heard about it sounded like a great idea.
But I can’t help feeling sometimes that the balance has just ended up making every class feel pretty much the same to me at times.
The cards I personally won’t be buying, my first impression was that they slowed the game down, although that would be an effect that would lessen over time of course.
I still enjoy playing 4e, although I’d prefer to DM it, I don’t make a good player.
I’m enjoying the short encounters sessions, I’m having fun. Ditching the cards or not will probably not effect that fun either way.
I do also look forward to playing some 3.5 / Pathfinder though. I kind of miss the level 1 Wizard having 3hp!
In a way I think I’ve just agreed with everyone. Pathetic, I am opinionless!
@All the people who read this, I said symptomatic of the drift in a direction I don’t like.
@Efka hey, I tried to hit on the gorgeous Elf lady, we threw some righteous RP around.
It was fun, but I never used the cards, never will, I think we only saw one or 2 uses of the cards at all.
@FlyingScotsman Hang in there brother, keep watching you never know when it’ll change again nor in the direction it will go. I remember spitting my dummy when they released AD&D2 but 3rd Ed brought it on back again.
@Scott are you seriously calling me a bad fan and a bad gamer because I expressed an opinion? I do not like what they have done with 4th Edition, it started off okay to the point where I ran LFR on their behalf and was having fun, however the game is going in a direction I do not like, I am therefore voting with my wallet, no more money from me. This is the way you change commercial products, you don’t buy them.
I have been playing D&D and other role playing games since the late 70′s I own every edition of D&D ever released with the notable exception of AD&D2 (That was just wrong), in fact I have purchased as many of the expansions and supplements that have been released as possible, this alongside buying RP books just to read them and consider their contents, I’ve written for SLA Industries and supported them in innumerable ways. I also rather suspect I have been buying games material longer than you have actually been alive, although I don’t know that which is why I say suspect.
The knee “jerk” reaction was yours, I have been forming this opinion for months now and the Fortune Cards have finally solidified my opinion.
As for an overreaction, yes, yes I do decide what makes something an RPG, we all do, it’s how it works, if I decide it’s not an RPG then I will not play it.
If you’d actually read what I wrote then you would see I said it’s part of a drift towards, that’s not ‘suddenly changing’.
Arguably the cards can help to roleplay, but if you look at it from another perspective (Yes I know you are incapable of that but I keep hoping) if you introduce 4th Ed to a player who has never role played before, then that person is not likely to play a role other than the combat wombat he’s designed to be.
And I have no words for the ‘Face it’ paragraph that can do justice to the monumental arrogance and stupidity you display.
@Rich The decision was made before the cards came out, but this has solidified it to the point where no more expenditure on D&D will happen until I see something I like.
@Iain I’m enjoying the Encounters sessions but that’s mostly because of the guys we’re gaming with, I see no problem with that continuing, I just will not help their finances anymore. the balance point you raise is interesting and I have an idea for a blog post germinating, although no doubt it will send people like Scott into even deeper rages. You sir are hoplessly pathetic, man up and have an opinion.
I think Glenn’s comment to Iain in the last post sums up my feelings about D&D 4e, it’s not a bad system, but the only real way I enjoy it is because I’m gaming with people who have fun and enjoy it as well.
I’ve run countless intro games at Leeds and been burnt out, i’ve run campaigns spoiled by power gamers, i’ve run games days and had to defend the game against haters, and i’ve run small games for friends who’ve travelled 200 miles to play and loved it.
Do I like the idea of fortune cards, no. Do I think they’ll add to the game or to the roleplaying, no. Am I intrigued enough to buy some, yes.
@Adam Don’t do it!!
Borrow some to have a read and then you will see if you wish to contribute to their production or not.
Now that you have given up on 4E and have gone to Pathfinder full-time make sure you get the Critical Hit Cards they put out. It will give you the edge you need!
http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/p/paizoPublishingLLC/gameMastery/itemPacks/v5748btpy872f
@Callin I see what you did there.
Main difference for me is Pathfinder does not make me feel like it’s a Squad Level tactical game and the Paizo cards would only be used when a Crit happens and not every turn.
Having said that I wouldn’t buy them anyway, I have philosophical objections to using cards in a roleplaying game.
Duty and Honour & Beat to Quarters are notable exceptions.
@Captain Calamitous: You’re right. You HAVE been playing RPGs longer than I’ve been alive. Maybe that’s part of the problem.
I called you a bad fan and a bad gamer because you used an optional and innovative new game mechanic to justify your already existing distaste for the game.
First, you don’t need to justify your distaste. You feel that you need to, for whatever reason, so the cards become your go-to target for ridicule/rage. This is IN NO WAY different from if you had pointed to Unearthed Arcana and said “LOOK AT WHAT D&D IS BECOMING! SCREW YOU WOTC!” Next time you feel the need to justify your personal tastes to your own internet audience, you ought to at least use a plausible scapegoat.
Furthermore, you then attempt to justify your reaction as simple market economics. Okay, that would be awesome, if your proposed actions were consistent with those principles. But they aren’t. If you were being consistent, you’d buy the products that you like and not buy the ones you don’t like (which is, coincidentally, what most people do every day without feeling like they have to blog about it). This would tell WotC/Hasbro’s number crunchers that they sold one more copy of thing-you-like and did not sell one more copy of thing-you-don’t-like, making them more likely to produce things you like in the future and less likely to produce things you don’t like.
Instead, you’re just not going to buy anything from them. Now the message you’re sending to WotC/Hasbro is lost in opacity. They could just as easily draw the conclusion that RPGs in general are becoming less popular as come to the conclusion that you are dissatisfied with a perceived direction they are taking.
You aren’t “voting with your wallet” (which, again, is what everyone does every day). You’re rage-quitting. And that’s why you’re a bad fan.
It really doesn’t matter how long your opinion has been cooking in your mind. Your decision to use the Fortune Cards to justify your choice to abandon D&D was a silly one. It’s you screaming at the world “That’s the last straw!” I mean, really? A completely optional product that in no way affects your game or how you play it – unless you participate in their FREE organized play events – is the last straw? I don’t think so. I think that, rather, you hit your last straw a while back when one day you realized you just weren’t feeling 4e for some reason.
Fortune cards are not all that different from the idea of powers (and, oddly, they’re fairly reminiscent of the Crusader’s recharge mechanic from the Book of Nine Swords in the sense that each round you are drawing a new mechanic to use). You don’t actually have criteria for what makes something an RPG and what doesn’t, because if you DID, your criteria would immediately seem ridiculous to you when examined with anything close to a critical eye. It’s much easier to say “Cards aren’t roleplaying!” even though there’s no such thing thing as a mechanic that IS roleplaying, and rather roleplaying is something that is introduced by the players.
And I’ve introduced well over two dozen players to 4e who had never rolled a die with more than six sides before. I can’t even BEGIN to tell you how wrong you are about them being unable to roleplay. And I guarantee you, dropping Fortune Cards into the package would not change that one. Single. Bit.
So….
“…game affecting cards in D&D? For me these are symptomatic of the drift of 4th Ed D&D towards the Squad Level tactical game it reminds me of. ”
“I have been forming this opinion for months now and the Fortune Cards have finally solidified my opinion.”
“…it started off okay to the point where I ran LFR on their behalf and was having fun, however the game is going in a direction I do not like”
So – you were fine with the Reward cards (far more significantly game-affecting cards) they used for the LFR but when a set of weaker and less abuseable cards is released for sale it suddenly becomes a problem?
What is it about using these cards in this specific organized play setting that is an unforgivable insult to the game, that wasn’t true of the Reward Cards?
Carl